A while back I noted that we naturally trust fiction more than fact, even though fiction can be contrived to say any nonsense an author might want it to say. Robin Hanson today describes how Lord of the Flies grossly misrepresents ‘state of nature’ humans in order to glorify our own civilization:
“This famous novel [Lord of the Flies] suggests that only our “civilized” rules and culture keeps up from the fate of our “savage” ancestors, who were violent dominating rule-less animals. But though this may be true regarding our distant primate ancestors of six or more million years ago, it is quite unfair slander regarding our face-painting forager ancestors of ten thousand or more years ago.
While our kids are segregated into schools where light monitoring lets them terrorize each other and form dominance hierarchies, forager kids are mixed among forager adults, who enforce their strong social norms against violence and domination. At school, our kids are rated and ranked far more often than most adults will tolerate, even though this actually slows their learning!”
I particularly liked this (hopefully true) story from the comments:
“When my oldest son was subjected to this book in high school, he got in quite a bit of hot water with the teacher when he responded to a question about what Lord of The Flies tells us about human nature with the observation that as a work of fiction it could say anything at all that the author chose to make up, and therefore it may tell us nothing.”
Parents: warn your kids to beware English teachers, who would try to teach them to value fiction as the equal of fact.

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March 30, 2010 at 1:25 pm
James
Straw man. English teachers don’t suggest fiction is the equal of fact in any immediate sense. Fiction is an entirely different way of perceiving and experiencing the world – incomparable, not equal.
I too liked the comment story, but it’s also misleading (unless the English teacher was really, really bad). Middle school English literature gets you to analyze texts by considering the position of the author, the position of the reader, the text itself, and the context of those actors/objects/subjects. ‘What does Lord of the Flies teach us about human nature’ is a science-mode question, albeit a terrible and misplaced one.
March 30, 2010 at 2:51 pm
Robert Wiblin
James: What sort of important questions can we trust literature on more than we can trust science research? The problem is literature isn’t bound by reality, so it can say anything on “position of the author, the position of the reader, the text itself, and the context of those actors/objects/subjects”.
March 30, 2010 at 3:53 pm
Fulana
Is the parent sure that the reported question and the inclusion of the book in middle school was not intended to address issues of teen peer pressure, bullying, etc. in single sex private school or among adolescent boys–ie. to elicit consideration of similarities & differences between the culture depicted in the book & that of the school & its boys to men? When I was taught it in a regular coed publicly supported school, the English class system how/whether people from different cultures would all react the same was a focus–do boys always pick on the weak? Do americans always root for the underdog? Would girls have done that? Did this ever happen? Would this ever happen? Was the author a nearsighted wimp or a bully?
Incredible anecdote since most English teachers are more likely to err on the side of stressing cultural relativism & ethnic relevance than “human nature”(unless they are explaining Greek drama & the concept of “hubris,” which of course would be explained as part of a particular world view, not a truth about human nature.
March 30, 2010 at 6:48 pm
Fulana
“So here was a young girl from Ireland, new to the school, new to America, new to a high school’s cliques and brutal pecking order. Here she was left on her own against not only the nine teenagers charged yesterday and their enabling friends but also against the adults who ignored her pleas
She told her mother, who told the school. Yet on the day she died, she was attacked in the library right in front of a teacher. She was attacked again in the hallway and again as she walked home. Two hours later, her little sister found her wearing the very same clothes she wore to school.
Phoebe Prince had ended her torment herself.
http://news.bostonherald.com/news/columnists/view.bg?articleid=1243309
March 30, 2010 at 11:53 pm
James
It is the reader who considers the “position of the author, the position of the reader, the text itself, and the context of those actors/objects/subjects.”
Proving that ‘literature lies’ by showing implied historical inaccuracies in one piece of literature is a pretty low standard of proof. Does literature have zero value? No place in understanding more about the human experience and the world we live in? Correspondingly, how ‘bound by reality’ is the production of science?
And have you really never learnt anything from reading literature?
March 31, 2010 at 12:02 am
Robert Wiblin
Literature can give you ideas about yourself which you can determine the accuracy of through introspection.
It may by chance be accurate about the external world. But no reason to think it will be – good reasons to think fiction as a rule is biased.
Point is not that literature is always wrong, just that it is untrustworthy source.
March 31, 2010 at 4:09 am
Fulana
Hmmm–so this anecdote is one alleged incident generalized & offered as truth about what goes on in current education & what is right & wrong about education in general(without even specififying if it’s an elite private secular school , Catholic School, coed or single-sex, how long the particular teacher has been teaching, whether the author checked the curriculum to see if the alleged response relected the currriculum, whether the author spoke to the teacher to make sure it was not a socratic question. Yes, overgeneralizing is rampant.
Maybe he wrote in the recent about how often bloggers, commentators, friends, talking heads, and anybody else trying to make a cultural/social/moral/political point uses a non/pre/post literate form like a movie, TV show, video game or video as EVIDENCE of actual behavior rather than a prefabricated “neuroeconomically” tested marketing vehicle and/or collaborative artistic venture. This certainly didn’t start with Avatar!! Start to notice how often people use non-literary fictional characters as examples, of how real people did, should or will behave. It is these more pervasive, powerful, and widespread fictions that adults as well as young students are in more danger of incorporating uncritically into their world view, especially since it is shared(publicity/marketing blitz from Halloween costumes to soundtracks to action figures ) & multisensory.
March 31, 2010 at 7:38 pm
James
Rob
We explicitly understand the bias of fiction – understanding those biases, as I indicated, is a core part of the study of literature. The problem with science is often it assumes the dichotomous implication of the opposite, an idea this post implicitly perpetuates. Science, of course, in practice can be equally subject to bias – for similar reasons to literature, in fact.
As a mechanism to understanding the world, we still need both – at least, we do with current technology. “Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted.
I’m looking forward to the post ‘Science Lies!’ More interesting I think.